Morocco for living and business

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I am trying to escape the European hellhole of taxation and lack of freedom. Ideally I don't want to go very far (Urugay, Caribbean...) and I also don't want to go East, in consideration of the fact that I am planning to get married and I don't like either body types and cultures.

I was considering Morocco and Egypt.

Egypt seemed a valid option until I saw that it is basically a protectorate of the US under a military regime.

Morocco would seem a better option.

I am an IT entrepreneur grossing < 200k euro/year.

I don't mind paying up to 35% taxes or something of the kind (not the 70% I am paying in Europe now).

I hear that it is easy to meet and go out with Moroccan women, which lets you make an informed choice when you decide to commit.

According to Chatgpt, the business climate is decent.

My reservations would be:

- the day to day business interaction with people. I have the experience of dealing with Turkish people, which means that if you are not part of their family, they can do anything to you, despite giving their word, signing contracts etc and many times plan to get ahead of you by capturing and then betraying your good faith (don't get offended if your are Turkish, I am just reporting what I saw) so I am afraid there could be something similar

- the day to day interactions with government. I tried Spain, where corruption is the essence of government, and I don't want to experience that again.



I would be grateful to have more information about that.
 
After a few weeks in Morocco, dealing with the systems there, you'll wish you were back home and paying 90% taxes. Getting your money into Morocco will be extremely simple, out not so easy. Spanish corruption is nowhere near what happens in these places.



The world is big and you narrowed down your options to maybe the 2 worst countries, with capital controls and corruption. Register somewhere else and go to these places as a tourist.
 
I'd try Portugal's NHR.



AFAIK foreign salary is tax exempt under NHR so if you establish a Estonian company and pay yourself a congruent salary, since Estonian salaries are tax exempt if you don't work in Estonia you could potentially be tax free for 10 years.



The estonian company will have its own resident director and that's it.
 
sriracha said:






and I also don't want to go East, in consideration of the fact that I am planning to get married and I don't like either body types and cultures.

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Your nickname is somewhat misleading.
 
Marzio said:






AFAIK foreign salary is tax exempt under NHR

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Pretty sure that's not the case. Only passive income is exempt.

Besides, with NHR 2.0, you need a local job.



Difficult to recommend something to OP because I don't understand his weird requirements regarding the dating market.
 
It’s a developing country in North Africa. It is hot, dusty, there is horrible infrastructure, you can’t drink the water, and it’s earthquake-prone. You won’t speak the language…they mostly use Darija day-to-day and French only for instruction or official use. You aren’t related to anyone there and like in most Arab countries things are done on family ties. Everything is overly bureaucratized and you are an obvious outsider with no one to grease the wheels for you. You’ll stand out and be viewed as a target for petty fleecing by many. Quality of life will be low even in a high-end location.



The income tax has a 37% top rate that starts at a low threshold and a 20% VAT with a few exclusions at the 10% rate. Residence is determined by permanent home, economic interest, or 183+ days per year. There is a four year statute of limitations on tax liabilities. Corporate tax laws are poor and any tax treaty will be more important than the general law with respect to taxed personal income. Taxation is generally territorial, though. There are some free zones with different corporate tax law. The MAD is a controlled currency which will cause complications. There are other capital controls though I don’t fully understand them all. Cryptocurrency is illegal, though the law is slowly changing and everyone does it anyway. Drones are illegal.



Autos are expensive and run hard. Prices of €8000 for a beat up Peugeot with 200 000 km on it are common. There is little in the way of public transportation, so your options are your own auto, the taxi system, or the public bus. Real estate in areas like Agadir will run €500-€2000 per square meter. You’ll need to be aware to look for earthquake damage. Petrol is roughly about €3 per liter. A 1,5L bottle of water is about €0.2. The economy is underdeveloped and it’s going to be hard to procure services without cousins or uncles who know how to do X or Y, which is how the locals seem to do things.



Morocco is a secular Islamic culture but it is still Islamic. Dating likely won’t be what you think it is. Forget marriage unless you convert. It’s illegal for a non-Muslim man to marry a Muslim girl.



If you don’t like the corruption and bureaucracy in Spain, it’s not going to be an improvement in Morocco. Nor will the dating life be an improvement.



On the plus side, the people aren’t nearly as pushy as Turks. They are more laid back and friendly, more European in some ways, though you still get some of the Middle Eastern culture and attitude. There is a trick to getting things done in that you just have to keep trying different people until you find someone who feels like being helpful that particular day, and then things will be done a bit above and beyond. The locals tend to pester over and over again until things get done. Bribes can sometimes work as well. You have good air connections to Europe through Casablanca and some of the smaller tourist cities (most of these are WizzAir to Luton tier). Direct flights to the US from Casa to JFK, Dulles, or Miami. Good connections through Casa to West Africa. A direct to Istanbul. Etc. You will be at the not-so-tender mercy of Royal Air Maroc, though. Real estate will probably tend to increase in value especially in tourist areas. How things are written in law are not necessarily how they have to be, but you need to understand the culture.
 
JustAnotherNomad said:






Pretty sure that's not the case. Only passive income is exempt.

Besides, with NHR 2.0, you need a local job.



Difficult to recommend something to OP because I don't understand his weird requirements regarding the dating market.

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Thanks for your answer.



My weird requirements come from being a pioneer of tax optimization and digital nomadism (20+ years).

The dating requirements come from the fact that the common thread between all tax schemes is that they are unsustainable in the long run on the personal side of things.



You will not be single forever, and the longer you are, the higher the probability of making big mistakes with your business life because of loneliness. It’s not sustainable if you don’t have a woman and friends.



Dubai? For real? Can you live on Russian prostitutes for the rest of your life? Marry an influencer? Marry into a family of camel farmers? Seriously?



Singapore? Convert to the herbivore, gelded Asian lifestyle? Marry a woman 140 cm tall? Live a Confucian lifestyle?



Northern Cyprus? Who are your friends? Tribal Turks? Russian mafia? What are you going to do in your spare time? Plan for your suicide?



Uruguay….you can certainly adapt to the sleepy lifestyle of a half-failed country and marry somebody who looks like Mildred Patricia Baena, Schwarzenegger’s “hot” option to his wife.



Eastern Europe….you will adore the rustic manners of their rugged gopniks, while planning for your liver transplant from the wodka…and the Sovietic mentality of the women there, screaming at you at 110 decibel after tripling in size and losing their hair…



I am of course exaggerating things, but the idea is finding a place where you can live a half reasonable lifestyle and date women who look at least somehow European and have a modicum of respect for you.
 
HardRJones said:






It’s a developing country in North Africa. It is hot, dusty, there is horrible infrastructure, you can’t drink the water, and it’s earthquake-prone. You won’t speak the language…they mostly use Darija day-to-day and French only for instruction or official use. You aren’t related to anyone there and like in most Arab countries things are done on family ties. Everything is overly bureaucratized and you are an obvious outsider with no one to grease the wheels for you. You’ll stand out and be viewed as a target for petty fleecing by many. Quality of life will be low even in a high-end location.

Click to expand...



Thanks for the detailed answer. Can I correctly resume it so:



- dating life does not compensate enough for the third-worldliness of the place (as opposed for example to some places in the Caribbean where dating options and friendliness of people are so enormous that they make you overlook the dust, the potholes, the fleecing etc)

- tax savings from lawlessness are not enough to compensate for daily dealings with 3rd world problems (as opposed to places where tax authorities are so primitive that given a moderate amount of financial sophistication, they are not even able to find out)
 
sriracha said:






You will not be single forever, and the longer you are, the higher the probability of making big mistakes with your business life because of loneliness. It’s not sustainable if you don’t have a woman and friends.

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Social life yes. Couple relationships are overrated and, for the most part, unsustainable in the long-term.









sriracha said:






I am of course exaggerating things, but the idea is finding a place where you can live a half reasonable lifestyle and date women who look at least somehow European and have a modicum of respect for you.

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If you like Caucasian looks be ready to cope with the current western women mindset.
 
Best Hack here is to go to Eastern Europe for few months , Pick a wify and then go East/ Asia to enjoy the life style .

You need bit of a luck and bit of money.

You wont like Morocco if you not a natural born hustler or don't speak Bit of Arabic.
 
sriracha said:






Thanks for the detailed answer. Can I correctly resume it so:



- dating life does not compensate enough for the third-worldliness of the place (as opposed for example to some places in the Caribbean where dating options and friendliness of people are so enormous that they make you overlook the dust, the potholes, the fleecing etc)

- tax savings from lawlessness are not enough to compensate for daily dealings with 3rd world problems (as opposed to places where tax authorities are so primitive that given a moderate amount of financial sophistication, they are not even able to find out)

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  • It’s an Islamic country. While Moroccans are more laid back about religious matters, dating will be restricted compared to almost anywhere else. On top of that, Darija is one of the most difficult Arabic dialects to learn, supposedly, so you’ll also be limited in how you can communicate. Many Moroccans don’t speak English. You’ll have better luck with French but you’d be surprised how many speak it poorly.
  • As an outsider, you’ll have difficulty even accessing the lawlessness in a beneficial way. At its heart, Morocco is a middle eastern (Arab) culture, despite being more European in some manners than the Turks or Egyptians, and things are run like they are in a middle eastern culture. I don’t step too far outside of the laws (also don’t live in Morocco) so I can’t speak on how diligently Morocco enforces tax law on foreigners. Unless you live in an area with a lot of expats (and maybe even then), the Moroccans will watch everything you do and gossip about you to each other and it will eventually get back to someone’s cousin in the Gendarmerie or the tax office, and you’ll never even know until a man in uniform walks up to you.
 
sriracha said:






You will not be single forever, and the longer you are, the higher the probability of making big mistakes with your business life because of loneliness. It’s not sustainable if you don’t have a woman and friends.

Click to expand...

You sound lonely and desperate my friend.



Objectively, the chance of losing your wealth (and mind) is higher with a (ex)wife than without one.



People have suggested Eastern Europe and Portugal to you, I dare you to look at the divorce rates in Portugal and Ukraine:




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Egypt looks good here actually, lol. But you aren't a local. Even for train tickets they'll charge you 10x the local price there, you'll never be seen as equal.



Alone doesn't need to mean lonely. Alone actually means All-One. Don't let Hollywood crap make you feel bad. You are good as you are.
 
cryptofriendly said:






You sound lonely and desperate my friend.



Objectively, the chance of losing your wealth (and mind) is higher with a (ex)wife than without one.



People have suggested Eastern Europe and Portugal to you, I dare you to look at the divorce rates in Portugal and Ukraine...

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You have some valid points. But they lack projection into the future. I am your future now.

Life is not made of an eternal present, as tax optimizators imply, lest you find yourself old and lonely/alone, whichever version you choose.

What I am arguing is that financial optimization is easy, building your life while doing it is not. All optimization schemes are played against an investment with zero ROI: time.

Unles your goal in life is to look at your bank balance sitting in your apartment lonely/alone watching Netflix (or the drinking buddies and Russian prostitutes variant), the bigger, more difficult challenge is to build an actual life around it. That's what I am trying to do here.
 
sriracha said:






I am of course exaggerating things, but the idea is finding a place where you can live a half reasonable lifestyle and date women who look at least somehow European and have a modicum of respect for you.

Click to expand...



Lol, good luck.

Seriously, what's up with this incel mindset? It scares me. It's getting out of hand.
 
sriracha said:






You have some valid points. But they lack projection into the future. I am your future now.

Life is not made of an eternal present, as tax optimizators imply, lest you find yourself old and lonely/alone, whichever version you choose.

What I am arguing is that financial optimization is easy, building your life while doing it is not. All optimization schemes are played against an investment with zero ROI: time.

Unles your goal in life is to look at your bank balance sitting in your apartment lonely/alone watching Netflix (or the drinking buddies and Russian prostitutes variant), the bigger, more difficult challenge is to build an actual life around it. That's what I am trying to do here.

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You aren't my future, you are my past.



You might believe getting married to a hottie is having a happy life together until you die, everything seems alright, and then one morning the wife of 9 years says she wants a divorce.

That life you built becomes just a memory, and you have to restart again. That's not an imaginary scenario, I lived through that.



But yeah, everyone must experience it himself, maybe I was unlucky (statistics say I wasn't the only one, that's why I attached that graphic). I wish you good luck and a happy journey.



The truth is: a man would sacrifice his own happiness for the happiness of his women. A women would sacrifice the happiness of her man for her own happiness.



If you need company, get some friends. If you need a women because you want a caretaker, cook, assistant or a female nymph, hiring a professional for each task is a better choice.

If you really want someone to love you unconditionally: get a dog.



Now I feel more happy than before, and that's not thanks to money, drugs, alcohol or pussy, but thanks to observing and understanding of my conditioning,

getting rid of attachments one by one: basically 'hacking' my mind and removing the malicious code.



The only thing that's permanent is change. The only thing that you can control is your emotions.



P.S. I don't say don't get a women / don't get married. But just let it happen, don't pressure yourself like that's the endgame and you'd lose if you don't find a partner soon. If she comes, she comes. Happiness is in yourself, not outside.
 
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cryptofriendly said:






You might believe getting married to a hottie is having a happy life together until you die, everything seems alright, and then one morning the wife of 9 years says she wants a divorce.

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Or, in the other way around, you are the one who gets weary of this couple routine lifestyle regardless how perfect she is, and want to break free.











cryptofriendly said:






Now I feel more happy than before, and that's not thanks to money, drugs, alcohol or pussy, but thanks to observing and understanding of my conditioning,

getting rid of attachments one by one: basically 'hacking' my mind and removing the malicious code.

Click to expand...

True freemen have no addiction.
 
The gist of my thought is that no matter the stage of one’s personal development, we need a network of friends and a woman. Yes, we can have periods of reflection, but nobody survives on meditation alone in the medium and long run.



So, in the same way as we obtain financial independence while avoiding the financial traps set by Western governments with various financial hacks, we also need to find ways to obtain a network of friends and a woman, while avoiding divorce, divorce court, fake rape accusations, generally toxic friends/women, countries with incompatible cultures and so forth.



Moderate Muslim countries avoid much of that trouble. Of course no country is perfect, so that’s my quest, finding that acceptable balance.
 
sriracha said:






Moderate Muslim countries avoid much of that trouble. Of course no country is perfect, so that’s my quest, finding that acceptable balance.

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Konstanz said:






With your budget you can maybe try Andorra. You will remain still in Europe and save on tax for sure

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I hear people call it "Mandorra" because of the gender ratio.

Anyway, it won't really matter for OP because no sane woman would want to be with a guy with his views anyway.
 
Took a drive yesterday and paid attention to prices at the stations. It’s about 11 MAD (€1) per liter now.
 
You’re a foreigner… Unless you get on your knees and give your life savings to her family, no moroccan woman would want you. They are too conservative/traditional



Where the hell did u hear that?
 
Alonzo said:






You’re a foreigner… Unless you get on your knees and give your life savings to her family, no moroccan woman would want you. They are too conservative/traditional



Where the hell did u hear that?

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Who is "u"?
 
In my opinion it's not a good choice, taxes are not low, poor country and alien culture. Why don't you choose eastern europe for example Bulgaria, Romania, Poland ? Pretty girls, taxes are lower than western europe, less crime, it's poorer than western europe sure but it's acceptable and definately better than morocco
 
Alonzo said:






You’re a foreigner… Unless you get on your knees and give your life savings to her family, no moroccan woman would want you. They are too conservative/traditional



Where the hell did u hear that?

Click to expand...

It doesn’t require quite that much but it’s not the usual dating experience.
 
luap said:






After a few weeks in Morocco, dealing with the systems there, you'll wish you were back home and paying 90% taxes. Getting your money into Morocco will be extremely simple, out not so easy. Spanish corruption is nowhere near what happens in these places.



The world is big and you narrowed down your options to maybe the 2 worst countries, with capital controls and corruption. Register somewhere else and go to these places as a tourist.

Click to expand...

If you have a local contact you can reasonably trust, it could be a good place to base yourself, provided you're okay with an unstable system in exchange for total anonymity, and potentially a place to "disappear" from public view.
 
Morocco customs (called Douane) imposes import tariffs on new items in excess of 20%. There are also bureaucratic issues in getting import licenses (typical matters of nepotism and corruption). There are grey market businesses that order items from AliExpress or Temu to France or Spain, marked them used to avoid duties, and transport them to Morocco to be delivered. The orders are collected and aggregated by Moroccan women who work at home doing this.



For that reason and payment issues (primarily lack of banking and currency controls on the MAD) e-commerce is not as common as it was prior to 2020. The government has restricted access to Wise and other services and they reportedly need to be accessed via VPN now. They used to be widely used. I’ve had no issues transferring small amounts of money in using Western Union. I’ve never attempted to transfer funds out and don’t have any banking there.



There is a stock exchange in Casablanca but I’m not sure of access or liquidity.



Moroccans don’t seem to bother to start a formal business or pay taxes on a small scale. The standard business structure is a Sarl, which can be owned by a foreigner, has low capitalization requirements, and a three year exemption on taxes after creation if all income is earned outside of Morocco. There is an annual turnover tax in addition to a tax on income earned in Morocco.
 
sriracha said:






I am of course exaggerating things, but the idea is finding a place where you can live a half reasonable lifestyle and date women who look at least somehow European and have a modicum of respect for you.

Click to expand...

That's Ukraine. Or at least was. The most beautiful women in Europe, dirt cheap, plenty to do, well connected to the rest of the world, young people speak somewhat decent English. Maybe wait till the war is over and try your luck there.
 
I have a suggestion, you should ask GPT the following questions:

"Is the EU a tax hellhole?"

"Are there tax havens in the EU?"
 
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