One Big Beautiful Bill - Section 899 - Increased US Taxes on Foreigners Investing in US

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Martin Everson

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May 28, 2025
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undefinedSummary​#-summary

  • Proposed Section 899 would significantly increase U.S. federal income tax rates,by 5% to 20%,on certain types of income earned by non-U.S. individuals and entities that are tax residents of, or are established or effectively managed in, “discriminatory foreign countries.” These jurisdictions are defined as those that impose an “unfair foreign tax” under the proposed legislation.
  • These elevated rates would apply to passive U.S. source income (such as dividends, interest, royalties, and rents), as well as income effectively connected with a U.S. trade or business (ECI).
  • The legislation defines “unfair foreign taxes” broadly, encompassing digital services taxes and other measures that have been widely adopted by foreign jurisdictions. As a result, a large number of non-U.S. individuals and entities could fall within the scope of the increased tax rates.
  • These higher rates would apply across a broad spectrum of existing tax provisions and would affect nonresident individuals, foreign corporations, and even sovereign entities.
  • If enacted, Section 899 would introduce substantial economic and compliance challenges, particularly for foreign governments, multinational enterprises, and investors with connections to jurisdictions that impose taxes perceived to disproportionately impact U.S. interests,such as digital services taxes or global minimum tax regimes.
  • Taxpayers potentially impacted by this proposal should carefully assess how their U.S. tax exposure could change under the new rules and evaluate possible strategies to mitigate adverse effects.
undefined​#-undefinedHow would tax treaties affect the application of proposed Section 899?​#-how-would-tax-treaties-affect-the-application-of-proposed-section-899If a different U.S. tax rate applies to a nonresident under existing law,such as a reduced or zero rate provided by an applicable income tax treaty,that rate would serve as the starting point for the rate increases under proposed Section 899.



For example, if interest or royalty payments from a U.S. corporation to a non-U.S. affiliate are currently exempt from U.S. withholding tax under a treaty, the applicable rate under Section 899 would begin at 5% in the first year, increasing incrementally thereafter.



By applying increased rates on top of treaty-based rates, the proposed legislation effectively overrides certain U.S. tax treaty obligations,a significant departure from longstanding treaty commitments.





undefinedObscure Tax Item in Trump’s Big Bill Alarms Wall Street​#-obscure-tax-item-in-trumps-big-bill-alarms-wall-streetundefined​#--2https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/mar...ump-s-big-bill-alarms-wall-street/ar-AA1FJCAV





"The item , introduced in legislation that passed the House last week as Section 899 and titled “Enforcement of Remedies Against Unfair Foreign Taxes” , calls for, among other things, increasing tax rates for individuals and companies from countries whose tax policies the US deems “discriminatory.” This includes raising tax rates on passive income, such as interest and dividends, earned by investors who are potentially sitting on trillions in American assets."



undefinedReporting Obligations for Foreign-Owned U.S. Corporations With Form 5472​#-reporting-obligations-for-foreign-owned-u-s-corporations-with-form-5472https://www.forbes.com/sites/priyar...g-beautiful-bill-challenges-global-investors/





undefinedOne Big Beautiful Bill Act​#-one-big-beautiful-bill-acthttps://www.congress.gov/bill/119th-congress/house-bill/1/text





P.S Time for those holding US assets to dump them if this bill passes as is?
 
lavel said:






where would you move them ?

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don't know how about @Martin Everson but I'd move them somewhere where nobody can reach...
 
It looks like even using a SMLLC won't protect you from this, if you reside and/or are tax resident in a "discriminatory foreign country".
 
lavel said:






where would you move them ?

Click to expand...



I don't own any stocks or even hold a USD account. I would especially not buy any US stocks if I was in the market to invest in equities.
 
Chances are some countries will be facing up to a 50% tax on certain types of US income. The 5% initially then going up to 20% in 4 years is not the only issue if the bill passes as is. There is a very high chance that Trump may start terminating Double Tax Agreements (DTA) with certain countries overnight due to "unfair tax practices". The US already did this to Hungary in 2022 below:



https://www.pwc.com/us/en/services/...-to-terminate-the-ushu-income-tax-treaty.html



"The US Treasury Department took the rare step on July 8 of providing notice to Hungary that it is terminating the US-Hungary income tax treaty, which has been in operation since 1979. According to a July 8 article in the Wall Street Journal, Treasury explained its action based on long-standing concerns with Hungary’s tax system and the treaty itself, and a lack of satisfactory action by Hungary to remedy these concerns in coordination with other EU member countries that are seeking to implement the OECD Pillar Two global minimum tax proposal. The treaty termination will apply to US-source dividends, interest, and royalties for payments made on or after January 1, 2024."





What does this mean for an investor who holds US dividend stocks for example. Well in 4 years you may face the 20% tax on dividend income (as per Section 899) plus an additional 30% default withholding tax if the DTA with your country is cancelled as in the case like Hungary. Meaning you face a total of up to a 50% (20% + 30%) tax on your dividend income .



You can be sure the EU and any country with a trade surplus will fall under Section 899 plus every developing country. Bottom line is stay out of US market, hope this does not pass or is amended as this is just a tool to blackmail other countries, sabotage their US investments etc and possibly market manipulation by Trump's circle.
 
He probably genuinely believed he could make the government more efficient, and cut waste, then he realised that's not what government is, and too many vested interests wont let that happen.
 
Alonzo said:






What happened? he changed sides suddenly for virtue signaling? or the bill doesn’t benefit himself?

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He just came face to face with Americas reality and add a dose of sour grapes because he failed miserably to cut $2trn from government budget. Had he done his job properly at DOGE things wouldn't be like this maybe.....lol.



He needs to blame the guy in the mirror and not the bill itself . He did more damage than good in his short spell at DOGE.
 
Martin Everson said:






I don't own any stocks or even hold a USD account. I would especially not buy any US stocks if I was in the market to invest in equities.

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One big beautiful mess. That means foreigners would stop investing in USA.
 
undefinedWhat’s up with Section 899 of Trump’s ‘big beautiful bill’ and its ‘retaliatory’ taxes?​#-whats-up-with-section-899-of-trumps-big-beautiful-bill-and-its-retaliatory-taxeshttps://www.msn.com/en-xl/money/eco...ul-bill-and-its-retaliatory-taxes/ar-AA1G5iE8



------ quote start

undefinedWhich countries will be targeted?​#-which-countries-will-be-targetedMeasures in Section 899 could take effect as soon as January 1 if the bill is enacted by October 3, according to an analysis of its key tax proposals by multinational law firm Skadden.



Several countries, including US allies, already impose taxes that Washington deemed "unfair" in a summary of the bill published by the House Committee on Ways and Means, which is the chief tax-writing committee in the House of Representatives.



For example, some European countries, including France, Italy and the United Kingdom, have digital services taxes at around 2 to 5 per cent.



These levies target digital services such as online advertising, marketplaces and data monetisation, areas dominated by US tech giants such as Google, Apple, Amazon, Meta and Microsoft.



Meanwhile, Australia and the UK have diverted profits taxes in effect. And countries including South Korea, Australia and Germany have implemented undertaxed-profits rules.



However, the definition of the "unfair tax" remains obscure, as the bill grants broad discretion to the Treasury secretary to determine what constitutes such a tax, leaving room for interpretation and potential expansion beyond currently listed levies. Thus, it remains to be seen which countries will ultimately be targeted.



----- quote end



I think a lot of double taxation agreements will be terminated or threatened to be terminated during negotiations which will be compounded by Section 899
 
I think Musk is leaving DOGE for good. He created a poll on X if there should be a Moderate party
 
they're fighting hard on X!

Trump told everyone:





https://twitter.com/x/status/1930699834282959042



and Musk responded with:


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Man, American politics is like a reality tv show. This and their debates are comedy gold.
 
Hopefully Tesla share price bounce back today as Trumps response on Truth Social tanked the stock price overnight....lol




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AtlasShrugged said:






Man, American politics is like a reality tv show. This and their debates are comedy gold.

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I guess you are not watching other countries political debates . They are just as good. I like this forum a lot due to very smart people and their knowledge.
 
Martin Everson said:






Hopefully Tesla share price bounce back today as Trumps response on Truth Social tanked the stock price overnight....lol



View attachment 9210

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Look at how he trashed the whole EV car industry . He is good
 
Davis123 said:






Look at how he trashed the whole EV car industry . He is good

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You mean the same guy that laughed at BYD 13 years ago....lol?











undefinedChinese EV titan BYD annual sales hit $100 billion eclipsing rival Tesla​#-chinese-ev-titan-byd-annual-sales-hit-100-billion-eclipsing-rival-teslaundefined​#-https://edition.cnn.com/2025/03/25/cars/china-byd-annual-sales-pass-tesla-intl-hnk/index.html









undefined'US no longer a safe nation for investment': Why Carmignac chief economist thinks Trump's 'revenge tax' will backfire​#-us-no-longer-a-safe-nation-for-in...omist-thinks-trumps-revenge-tax-will-backfirehttps://www.msn.com/en-in/news/othe...-trumps-revenge-tax-will-backfire/ar-AA1Gd4pj





---- quote start



undefinedWall Street consensus​#-wall-street-consensusAccording to Bloomberg data, the Wall Street consensus is that the tax provision would further decrease investors' confidence in US assets, which are already shaken by Trump’s trade policies and America’s deteriorating fiscal accounts.



The tax provision could trigger a 5 per cent fall in the dollar and a 10 per cent selloff across equities, according to Allianz SE chief investment officer Ludovic Subran.




-- quote end
 
Martin Everson said:






You mean the same guy that laughed at BYD 13 years ago....lol?











Chinese EV titan BYD annual sales hit $100 billion eclipsing rival Tesla​​https://edition.cnn.com/2025/03/25/cars/china-byd-annual-sales-pass-tesla-intl-hnk/index.html









'US no longer a safe nation for investment': Why Carmignac chief economist thinks Trump's 'revenge tax' will backfire​https://www.msn.com/en-in/news/othe...-trumps-revenge-tax-will-backfire/ar-AA1Gd4pj





---- quote start



Wall Street consensusAccording to Bloomberg data, the Wall Street consensus is that the tax provision would further decrease investors' confidence in US assets, which are already shaken by Trump’s trade policies and America’s deteriorating fiscal accounts.



The tax provision could trigger a 5 per cent fall in the dollar and a 10 per cent selloff across equities, according to Allianz SE chief investment officer Ludovic Subran.




-- quote end

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I am very afraid of going back to USA now. It's a scary situation for everyone. See Los Angeles city chaos in news . Saturday night live show would be very interesting with this kind of political climate created by all of this sad experience
 
Martin Everson said:






You mean the same guy that laughed at BYD 13 years ago....lol?











Chinese EV titan BYD annual sales hit $100 billion eclipsing rival Tesla​​https://edition.cnn.com/2025/03/25/cars/china-byd-annual-sales-pass-tesla-intl-hnk/index.html









'US no longer a safe nation for investment': Why Carmignac chief economist thinks Trump's 'revenge tax' will backfire​https://www.msn.com/en-in/news/othe...-trumps-revenge-tax-will-backfire/ar-AA1Gd4pj





---- quote start



Wall Street consensusAccording to Bloomberg data, the Wall Street consensus is that the tax provision would further decrease investors' confidence in US assets, which are already shaken by Trump’s trade policies and America’s deteriorating fiscal accounts.



The tax provision could trigger a 5 per cent fall in the dollar and a 10 per cent selloff across equities, according to Allianz SE chief investment officer Ludovic Subran.




-- quote end

Click to expand...











Martin Everson said:






You mean the same guy that laughed at BYD 13 years ago....lol?











Chinese EV titan BYD annual sales hit $100 billion eclipsing rival Tesla​​https://edition.cnn.com/2025/03/25/cars/china-byd-annual-sales-pass-tesla-intl-hnk/index.html









'US no longer a safe nation for investment': Why Carmignac chief economist thinks Trump's 'revenge tax' will backfire​https://www.msn.com/en-in/news/othe...-trumps-revenge-tax-will-backfire/ar-AA1Gd4pj





---- quote start



Wall Street consensusAccording to Bloomberg data, the Wall Street consensus is that the tax provision would further decrease investors' confidence in US assets, which are already shaken by Trump’s trade policies and America’s deteriorating fiscal accounts.



The tax provision could trigger a 5 per cent fall in the dollar and a 10 per cent selloff across equities, according to Allianz SE chief investment officer Ludovic Subran.




-- quote end

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I was referring to Trump who trashed the whole EV car industry by his statements. As per environmental scientists EV cars offer a better future for environment but dangerous politicians they are blank blank about.
 
Davis123 said:






I was referring to Trump who trashed the whole EV car industry by his statements. As per environmental scientists EV cars offer a better future for environment but dangerous politicians they are blank blank about.

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Oh I misunderstood you..ooops











Davis123 said:






I am very afraid of going back to USA now. It's a scary situation for everyone. See Los Angeles city chaos in news .

Click to expand...



Yeah that's another topic and hopefully that stuff don't escalate further and things go full authoritarian, marshal law etc

.





Anyway if one is living in an unfriendly country to US think wisely if you want to hold US investments if this bill passes "as is". The political risks are high and that is not something often said when one invests in the US financial markets.
 
This is what democracy leads to ... its rubbish, getting worse and worse, avarage person is more raterded than ever because of social media, junk food etc... I hope with the help of God the monarchy will be restored one day.
 
friedrich5000 said:






This is what democracy leads to ... its rubbish, getting worse and worse, avarage person is more raterded than ever because of social media, junk food etc... I hope with the help of God the monarchy will be restored one day.

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People like you scare the rest of sane thinkers
 
friedrich5000 said:






This is what democracy leads to ... its rubbish, getting worse and worse, avarage person is more raterded than ever because of social media, junk food etc... I hope with the help of God the monarchy will be restored one day.

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Monarchy? Like when those that now have social media and junk food simply count not read and did have no food?
 
daniels27 said:






Monarchy? Like when those that now have social media and junk food simply count not read and did have no food?

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I think he means more like Monaco, Brunei or the Gulf States. There are undeniably successful modern monarchies. There are also less successful ones like Eswatini, and de facto monarchies even if they dont formally call themselves that, like North Korea, Togo, Azerbaijan and Equatorial Guinea.



And the king/president/dictator has to have absolute or near absolute power, otherwise I wouldnt call it a monarchy. Like the Netherlands or Sweden arent monarchies. And for places that dont call themselves monarchies, but have an absolute ruler, I count it as a monarchy if the power is handed over to the son (or daughter but thats unusual) of the ruler, when the ruler dies. (And it's always when they die, kings dont deliberately leave power, that's not how it worked historically, and not how it works today)
 
Cloudbanck said:






I think he means more like Monaco, Brunei or the Gulf States. There are undeniably successful modern monarchies.

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Yes, but then you would need to hope for the help of Allah, not God.











Cloudbanck said:






There are also less successful ones like Eswatini, and de facto monarchies even if they dont formally call themselves that, like North Korea, Togo, Azerbaijan and Equatorial Guinea.

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Sucess is always a matter of definition.
 
To step away from the two retards fighting on the internet and back to Section 899, the worst part is that determination of what is an unfair tax is an administrative determination. That will be abused by every president going forward in different and unpredictable ways. When the IRS is done with its rule making for implementation, it will start as a mess and only get worse.
 
undefinedSenate Delays and Scales Back ‘Revenge Tax’ in Trump Bill​#-senate-delays-and-scales-back-revenge-tax-in-trump-billhttps://www.msn.com/en-us/money/mar...es-back-revenge-tax-in-trump-bill/ar-AA1GPTyf



----



(Bloomberg) -- Senate Republicans plan to delay and make less onerous a levy targeting foreign companies and investors from countries that the US determines have been unfairly taxing US companies.



The provision, officially known as Section 899 and informally known as the “revenge tax,” was drafted by House Republicans and supported by the White House to counter several European countries, Canada, Australia and more nations from taxing US firms in a way those lawmakers argue is discriminatory.



The Senate’s version of the bill released late Monday would delay that new tax until 2027 for calendar-year filers and raise it by 5 percentage points a year until it hit a 15% cap.



The House version of the tax would take effect sooner and rise to 20% over four years on individuals and firms from targeted countries, raising an estimated $116 billion over 10 years help offset the rest of the President Donald Trump’s massive tax and spending package.




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